i hope i get it done by then. >> vice president's panel gets ready to present its recommendationsesa the call for stronger school security gets longer. ahead, the former head of security for america's largest school district. hi, everybody. great to have you with me today. i'm thomas roberts in for craig melvin and you're watching msnbc. a role of america in afghanistan and how many troops will it take to keep the taliban at bay? we'll get two very unique perspectives on that. >> they're quite legitimate and i want to get answers myself before i take the position. >> coming up, california congressman before questioning the top job at the pentagon being derail the president's second-term agenda. as we begin this hour we'll take you straight to the white house where after a week of meetings with gun control advocates, representatives of the gaming industry and other groups, vice president biden will submit his

recommendations to the president as early as tuesday for ways to prevent gun violence moving forward. kristen welker joins us with more on that. let's start out with what we can expect to come, again, this tuesday deadline is pretty self-imposed by the gun task force and the president himself, and all of them trying to make the president's state of the union when it comes up at the end of the month. >> reporter: that's right. we're expecting the vice president to put forth a broad set of proposals including legislative proposals that will call for reinstating the ban on assault weapons, limiting access to high-capacity magazines. one of the ideas that's moving to the forefront, though, thomas is the idea of having universal background checks. that would mean anyone who buys a gun at a gun show, online, out of the back of a van would have to have a background check in order for it to be legal. we also expect the vice president to put forth some proposals that would enhance access to mental health services as well as dealing with the issue of the pervasiveness of

glor feig violence in the media. now, all of these ideas have gotten some pushback this week, sort of underlying how divisive this issue continues to be. of course, the vice president sat down with the representative of the nra. the nra had harsh words for the white house after that meeting saying they feel as though this administration is trying to crack down on their second am d amendment rights. after the vice president met with representatives from the video game industry, there were also some stern words and i will read you a snippet from a letter that the entertainment consumers association said, quote, we're asking you to support the public's constitutional right to have access and not to blame the media. so those are some of the backdrop against which the vice president is going to offer the recommendations on tuesday. >> before i let you go, though. who is the biggest obstacle to him becoming confirmed at least

as this week is wrapped up. >> you really have obstacles on a lot of different sides, thomas. you have democrats that have criticized some of the past controversial comments and chuck hagel is a republican who are against him and lindsay graham has expressed some concern, but senator chuck schumer, a democrat might be key in getting him confirmed and he's the third ranking senator. so a lot of people will be looking to him. he is on the fence right now. a lot of people will be looking to him to see where he stands and whether he does, in fact, give hagel a thumbs up. that could have a big impact. >> kristen welker, thanks so much. we'll check back with you later in the show. we'll see you soon. the nation's longest-running war topping the agenda this week. the president met with hamid karzai in washington to discuss the pace of withdrawing u.s. troops from afghanistan. joining me now in the msnbc studios aattia abawi and general

wesley clark, general clark ran for president in 2004 as a democrat. i want to start with you, because as we were watching what took place with the meeting with president obama and president karzai. we know president karzai does want the troopses out of aftering aftering, but now this symbolic meeting and the talk that came from yesterday, what does it mean going forward for 2014? >> president karzai wants the american military mission in afghanistan to be over, he does want american troops to stay in afghanistan primarily to train afghan forces and the forces capable of taking care of their own land and analysts would disagree with that and the reason he wants american forces still there isn't necessarily to fight the insurgency in afghanistan. he's hoping he will have an effect across the border with the insurgency that he says stems from pakistan.

>> general, have we met our goals there? >> do we know what our established goals are other than going after osama bin laden? >> the mission evolved over time, but first, under secretary rumsfeld we weren't going stay and then we got in a fight in 2002 and then we continued to drag this mission forward because we realized the taliban will be reconstituted. by 2005 they had reconstituted and they were posing an increasing threat. so i think this is one of the cases where the country belongs to afghanistan and afghans. it's not going to be the 51st state. we've trained the forces and we've done as much as we could. can we continue to have some training and support? yes. we've got osama bin laden and it's time to transition this mission and move on. >> atia, you were one of the last reporters to interview hamid karzai. he blamed nato-aligned forces for the insurgency that has rocked the nation recently. that finger-pointing itself did

that come up within the meetings in washington because that interview took a lot of people by storm. >> i'm sure it did behind closed doors. i'm sure president karzai was asked about it. if he didn't bring it up himself which i'm sure he may have, president karzai wanted to be vocal. there was a reason he gave me that interview and part of the reason was to get his message across before coming to washington, and he did say that nato was behind some of this insecurity and he was primarily pointing to the contractors that nato hires to help them with the war in afghanistan, and some of those contractors that trained afghans and not necessarily afghan security forces and part of the afghan government and afghans within the villages that could be part of the insurgency after 2014. >> getting us out of afghanistan is certainly part of the president's agenda and what do we know is the defined obama doctrine for what we're also learning from the cabinet choices they're putting together

on defense. >> the strongest thing we can do for the united states of america is to have a strong economy. we have to start creating jobs in this country. we have to deal with a number of issues abroad other than the ground troop commitment in afghanistan. we have the middle east still in turmoil and we've got syria and we've got iran and we have challenges still in iraq. you've got the far east and you've got china and japan that are at odds right now and china's increasing way of a powerful country and once the nation is respected so these are broader, more nebulous and just as important challenges and they have to be met from the foundation of a strong, vibrant, growing, american economy. >> when you talk about jobs, there are people on the right who will say the president needs to add defense cuts and that means jobs. they were in the country now that have spent over a dozen years at war. so we're in the business of war now which is also a moneymaker for a lot of people. so what would you say to those people that would oppose the

fact that the president is lining up chuck hagel and a republican to get into the defense department to get red for the cuts to come. it's a bad business to get in for job creation because dollar for dollar it does create a lot of job. so the country needs as much defense as it needs, but it's not where you want to invest. we node to invest in infrastructure, space, telecommunications, broadband and education. there are so many needs that this country has and we've actually got less revenue coming in to the federal government now that we have historically. we'll have to deal with medicare in the longer term problem, but right now we have it right and we have to get through march and the fiscal cliff resolution and we've got to pull ourselves up by the bootstraps. we've got to grow in this economy. that means wall street has to invest in america, not putting money in brazil. nothing wrong with brazil and there's lots of opes in america

and there's millions of good people who need those resources and want to work and contribute to this economy. green energy and other energy. it's a great area to invest in and we need it in this country. >> general clark, atia abawi, we'll see you later this afternoon when you join us again. >> thank you. unlike the backlash against the possible nomination of susan rice, opposition to president obama's nomination of chuck hagel is coming from both side was of the political divide. as some democrats voice concerns over hagel's positions on a wide range of issue, one of them is joining me now. democratic congressman adam schiff who has tough questions for chuck hagel. sir, great to have you with me. as a senior member of the house intelligence committee you've challenged hagel's nomination to head the pentagon. we've heard certain reasons why and they've been floated out there, but what are yours specificsly? >> i think there are two issues that senator hagel will have to address, and i think his fate is

in his own hands. i think he's likely to be confirmed and it is not a slam dunk and he'll have to answer tough questions on iran, principally. he has written and said in the past that he can tolerate potentially a nuclear-powered, a nuclear-armed iran and that is certainly at odds with most of the members if not all of the members of congress. he has opposed some of the nun lateral sanctions and regime which is have been key to putting pressure on iran, and i understand that he's changed those views, but i think what will be determined during the confirmation process is what has led him to change his views and what has led him to come into conformity with the mainstream thinking in the administration and the congress, but those will be among the toughest questions. he'll also have to answer questions about the comments he made with ambassador hormel and whether he's prepared to integrate the new policies in the military that allow people to serve openly regardless of

sexual orientation. >> do you not accept the apology regarding senator hormel? >> it's not for me to accept or not accept, but what i think the public will want to know -- >> ultimately, isn't it, as someone who is opposing him and drawing it up as a point of contradiction for you, isn't it important for you to believe genuinely that he does not feel that way going forward especially with the full repeal under the president of don't ask don't tell. >> first of all, i haven't opposed senator hagel, but i have said senator hagel has some important questions to answer, and yes, i would want before i took a position in support of senator hagel i would want to know that what he said then doesn't reflect his views now in a heartfelt way, that he is determined to fully integrate these new policies in the military, so that is important to me, but i won't have a vote in the confirmation and what ultimately he'll have to persuade are people like senator schumer on iran and the other members of the senate on both

issues and that's the challenge that he'll face, but certainly, if i were sitting during that confirmation hearing or if i'm asked to lend my support as a house member, those are the questions that i'm going to want answered. >> you bring up a great point about chuck schumer and whether or not he's going to be getting a ringing endorsement, and that is chuck haguel and in "the wall street journal," he is loyal to his party to oppose mr. hagel and he is one strong supporter of constituents and he has so far declined to endorse mr. hagel's nomination. is it your opinion, politically that if chuck schumer doesn't come onboard that chuck hagel couldn't suffer and not go through and get confirmed? >> i think senator schumer will be critical. >> i think that he will be inclined to support the president's choice. i think most of us would be. at the same time, he is going to have to be satisfied that senator hagel will advance these

policies that will seek to prevent iran from ever obtaining a nuclear bomb, and i think if the senator, that is if senator schumer were not persuaded during the confirmation that he would be willing to break with the president and it's that important. the iran issue is simply that important, but again, if i were a betting man, i would say that he'll be confirmed, that he'll satisfy the questions that have been raised, but that fate is very much in senator hagel's hands as well as in senator schumer's. >> the hearings will tell the tale. >> thanks for your time. i appreciate it. >> thank you. bill clinton is in haiti today. we'll take you live to the island nation still devastated from the aftermath of the earthquake three years later. president obama facing backlash in the cabinet resignations and the new picks out there. is the white house diverse enough is the big question. you're watching msnbc, the place for politics. most people tend to think more about how they brush than what they brush with.

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i'm going to be submitting to the president my proposal as to how to proceed. i'm shooting for -- i hope i get it done by then. >> it was an unfortunate choice of words. the vice president will present his task force recommendations as early as tuesday, but given the political weight given the position of gun control, how much can the white house really do? joining me now, molly ball, political editor, and mary sweet at "the chicago sun-times." the nra immediately rejected the white house proposals coming out and slamming the fact that vice president biden seemed more apt to want to take guns away from people than protect our kids in

school, but how much political weight does the nra really have now and does the invitation to the white house actually legitimize any power they do have. >> let me take the first part of your question. the nra it diminishes their own power. there is not, has not and will not be a proposal to take away anyone's guns or to prevent any wrongful purchase. there obviously are going to be some changes proposed that's different than taking away your gun, but clearly, the nra hopes that that kind of fearmongering will help them influence what eventually comes out of the white house and and i'm sure it will be opposed to the nra and bringing them to the white house for the meeting is an attempt to talk to them and hear their input and it's not better than

not having them in at all. >> molly, when lynn brings up fearmongering, the nra is saying that it has gained about 100,000 new members. a lot of people have been giving reports through december whether it's from christmas or not, but gun sales went up. all of this talk has been basically a big gun commercial for people to buy another weapon or load up on magazine clips that they can use at their leisure. do you think that the numbers are true? that we can fact-check the nra on these new numbers about what they say about having 100,000 new members in such a short period of time? >> sure. we saw the same thing at the beginning of obama's first term when the nra ran a very tough campaign and failed to defeat obama, actually twice now, but they saw their numbers go up and gun sales saw those numbers go up and memberships in the nra went up. this is the sort of double audience that the nra has to

play here. when they do things like have the press conference with wayne lapierre, they're not just talking to the american public as a whole. they're talking to the base and they have this base of members who are very hard core and who do really want them to take a very hard line against the administration. >> when we talk about their base and the nra is a gun lobby for the manufacturers and not so much for the individual out there. they are for big business for gun making and the manufacturing and the sales of weapons and the arming of these magazines and everything that goes along with it, two very conservative republicans and we have chuck grassley and representative phil expressing limits on those high-capacity magazines and that is the word, if everybody was listening very closely to the word that vice president joe biden used after meeting with

the nra is talking about the magazines as well. universal registration and federal background checks. >> it seems what the white house is leading toward is leaving the hard stuff later. one of the hardest proposals is going to be having a on assault weapon and doing the fact that you can't do everything is not an excuse for doing nothing. so it's a reasonable strategy to try and take first off the things on which you could build some consensus. if anything else that might diffuse some of the very heated partisan on this issue just by doing it. the other thing that's out there they think has some consensus background, background checks on people who buy guns at gun shows. at least have parody, if you have one rule in you buy a gun in the store you should have the

same rules of checking if you buy it in the gun show. by the way, this issue has been around for years. no one's been able to close the loophole. >> it's such a common sense issue that you'll be able to blur the aisles on that one. >> molly, lynn, thanks. we'll check in with you later in this hour. stand by for that and we'll have much more on the gun debate ahead, including this. >> freedom is not a handgun on the hip of every teacher and security should not mean a guard posted outside every classroom. >> coming up, we'll talk to a school security expert who used to run security for the nation's largest school district, but first, he's getting closer for a run for the u.s. senate, but before cory booker can do that he'll have to displace one of his longest-serving democrats in congress. we'll talk more about that. you're watching msnbc. >> announcer: did you know there are secret black market websites around the world that sell stolen identities? >> 30-year-old american man, excellent credit rating.

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speaking up about an opinion piece he wrote in 1992. in that piece recently published by "the stanford daily," he once wrote he once hated gays, but learned how to hide his feelings and it opened his eyes to their struggle. >> it opened my eyes that i was a participant in this ignorance and that's why as a 22-year-old i wrote such a provocative, if not dramatic article shining a light on myself in hopes that i could be a part of one of those bridgebuilders. he filed papers with the launch of an exploratory committee for a possible run for the senate. let's goen side our political playground. the u.s. government would not be building a death star. you can wipe your brow off of that one. a white house official on friday crushed the hopes of a 34,000 people who had signed a petition putting their signatures online for those not in the know, the death star was the empire's

battle station in "star wars" with the blast powerful enough to destroy an entire planet. the white house said it would cost too much to build and the administration is not in the business of blowing up planets. so that helps. >> how often do you see vice president joe biden, mayor bloomberg and m.c. hammer. it will be hammer time at the u.s. conference of mayors next week in washington. he's been experiencing a bit of a resurgence on thursday more than 270 mayors are scheduled to attend that. hammer time. armed guards or police officers at school in it's an idea that's come up a lot lately, but it has worked before. the former chief of security for city schools will join me next about what it could mean in 2013 and while inauguration preps are under way, so are the preparations for gun appreciation day and the lead organizer of that event will join us in the next hour. some questions for them. you're watching msnbc, the place for politics. when you have diabetes...

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[ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup. >> he's been keeping a low profile for months after being banned from the sport of cycling. lance armstrong is set to confess to doping and apologize in a sit-down interview with oprah winfrey. this marks a dramatic break after 14 years of public denials. he was stripped of all olympic competition that he took performance-enhancing drugs. hi, everybody. i'm thomas roberts and here's a look at other stories topping the news. photos of fidel castro meeting with argentina's president marking a rare public sighting of the ailing 86-year-old leader. closer to home, a powerful winter storm blasting north dakota and minnesota with strong winds up to 35 miles per hour and wind chills, get this, as low as minus 30 degrees.

in washington, went for his routine fitness exam earlier today, the results of that exam will be released coming up later this month. so medically speak, the chances are if you don't have the flu yourself, you know someone who does and if you don't you're probably not watching us from within the united states. the virus is now in nearly every state and there are signs that the season could be picking up. nbc's gabe gutierrez has more now from us from a hospital in brooklyn. gabe? >> reporter: just declared a public health emergency for new york state and that means over the next 30 days, commercial pharmacists will be allowed to administer the flu vaccine to patients between 6 months and 18 years of age. the flu activity may be leveling off in parts of the south, but across the country in e.r.s like this one doctors aren't sure when it will stop. clearly, there's nothing fun about the flu. but now it's officially an epidemic. the disease widespread in 47

states, up from the week before. so for, at least 20 children have died. >> everyone in my office is sick right now and everyone seems to have gotten it. flu season lasts for about three months and the cdc says we're not even half way through. >> it's expected most parts of the country will continue to see influenza activity for several more weeks. >> while health officials think the flu might have peaked in some spots like the south, interest is high. the blue dots on this match show the rising google searches for the word flu from mid-september to earlier this month. it is so bad the arch dices of boston wants parishioners to bow instead of shaking advance has suspended wine during communion. mass transit agents are warning passengers to cover costs. in iowa, abbey white is rushing to get the flu shot to protect herself and her 3-month-old

daughter. >> we've been seeing around 400 patients a day. >> the doctor runs the e.r. in brooklyn. he says this month about a third of the kids here have had flu-like symptoms. >> this year in particular there's an increase not just in the flu at this time of year, but there's also a norovirus and whooping cough out simultaneously. >> reporter: it rate the the vaccine as 52%, and it's quite low and the patients really do need to get the shot, but again, thomas, governor cuomo just declared new york state a public health emergency. back to you. >> nbc's gabe gutierrez necessary brooklyn. thank you. we switch gears now back to gun control and whether or not armed guards or armed teachers will make schools in america safer. this approach has been advocated by the nra from the newtown connecticut, and they addressed that issue during his state of

the state speech this year. >> let me be clear. fred om is not a handgun on the hip of every teacher and security should not mean a guard posted outside every classroom. [ applause ] that is not who we are in connecticut and it is not who we will allow ourselves to become. >> while we've heard from many other lawmakers on this issue, what about someone who has had to guard our schools himself? gregory thomas, former director of security in new york city schools and he joins me this afternoon. it's great to have you here. obviously, your background in this and your experience is invaluable. when you hear about this and the potential of moving forward 2013 post-newtown and people wanting to have armed guards at school. your reaction is what? >> over the last ten years events have changed in schools that focus school safety. talking about school shootings in the '90s, columbine and things like that, they started doing more on bullying and one event after that on 9/11. how we react to man made disasters and those that are

also natural disasters and then the shootings in the beltway in 2002 when one of the young kids going into benjamin tasker middle school was shot and people started doing lockdowns and that make sense and now we're reacting to an event that's a very rare event and i'll call the reaction to this is a spontaneous utterance. defining a law on spontaneous utterance is a statement made after a series of events and it's done in response to stalling event and something done spontaneously. i think the reaction to put armed guards in schools or to arm teachers and principals is a response to spontaneous utterance. >> for some people, knee-jerk reaction to what's going on and has the attention of state-level lawmakers and as well as lawmakers and texas lieutenant governor has joined democratic california senator barbara boxer in saying that they support having guards in schools and as someone who has done this before and looked at the schematics of

schools and the entrance, how feasible is that for all of the communities that we have in this country to have armed guards in all entrances and exits and to be able to account for all of those paychecks that will need to go out to those ones in public institutions. >> if you do the math, there are 132,000 schools in the country. roughly. 98,000 of those are public schools. to find the resources for the police department or any place that have the facilities or theablity to deploy staff at schools there will be a large amount of money to do that, more importantly i want to start with schools built for teaching and learning. we don't need to have schools turn into something else. it's what they're referring to to have a person there to deter this event which is a rare event, that person becomes a sentry like checkpoint charlie and not that kind of attitude. it's a school. to do that, you turn the school into something else rather than a place of teaching and

learning. >> as someone who has the experience of seeing armed guards in school, where they're in charge of disciplinary aks and does that make a difference than knowing that there's an armed guard in the school to keep out an intruder, but these armed guards were in school for disciplinary purposes for the schools that were in the school. >> there's no research that shows that armed police officers can turn the school around. the functioning is done by the principal who is in charge of the discipline of the school. in order for it to be right it has to be done from the outside in or from the inside in. it's an event that the school cannot prevent. the first thing we want to do is make sure they don't rea account to this, because it came from the outside and mitigate the damage by doing lockdowns which they did very well in newtown, but also to have armed guards and they're there for a reason and if they're there to invoke discipline it's for the wrong reason. >> great to be here, we

appreciate it. >> gun control advocates are playing the nra's game and they're fighting for the hearts and minds of the american public and we want to go to our political war room and the democratic strategist and former chief of staff for west virginia senator joe manchin and joe watkins was an aid with president george h.w. bush. i want to start with you becausas we have seen, former congresswoman gabby giffords and her husband mark kelly this week launching a super pac americans for possible solutions or responsible solutions, excuse me, other interest groups, mayors against illegal guns are led and financed by new york mayor michael bloomberg. they're raising a lot of money. one thing i want to point out is that gabby giffords' new group, the americans for responsible solutions has gotten a $1 million donation from a couple in texas and trial lawyers there who were politically active. do you think this type of money and this type of support can beat the nra at its own game?

>> i don't think it's a matter of plague partisan politics or anti-nra. i think every american wants to make sure that we have schools that are safe and that our kids are protected no matter what and any cause, and i don't think it's a matter of liberal, moderate or conservative in this matter because it's about human beings and about americans because american lives are at rick. if any of these groups can find a way for the violence to top taking place and the loss of life of young people in schools that's a good thing and i think everybody would be happy and support it because we all want to see it end. >> so that's your approach and someone who from the right has their perspective, but i want to play for everybody what the nra, president david keane said yesterday on his interview on the "today" show, take a listen. >> we have a profound disagreement on this administration, first of all, on what would make a difference. we don't think a ban on so-called assault weapons which

hasn't worked in the past will work this time. >> so the ban that expired in '04, chris, is not something they want to see go back to being instituted once again. again, we will remind everybody, the nra is the lobbying arm for gun manufacturers. this is about big business, and that's about all it is, isn't it? >> well, it is about big business for some and to be honest, it's about the second amendment and their belief that it covers assault weapons and i think that's where most americans who i think are open to common sense reforms that don't threaten the second amendment, but take in consideration that we've got to do more to make sure our children are protected and the communities are protected. >> and i think that's where the real sticking point here is. i think if you ask most nra member, it will be open, i think, to renable reforms in particular whether it was background checks and dealing with high-capacity magazines and i think even a fraction of them

will be open to some type of assault weapons ban. the challenge here, i think is creating enough political momentum to make this happen and that has always been the difficulty with this. >> joe, when we talk about the second amendment and chris brings this out. the second amendment is well regulated unless you're with the security of the free state and the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. >> we had antonin scalia who said that gun rights would not be infringed upon. i believe it was antonin scalia -- who said people are going to have their handguns and their shotgun, but in modern day -- times, if we're going to fight government tyranny, do we need to go out and buy grenades? where does the line stop to be able to stop government tyranny. if that's the argument that

people will use for why they should be able to allow to buy assault-style weapons that we use in afghanistan and other confrontations. >> i think chris raises a great point. this is a conversation that certainly members of the nra and they're democrats and republicans, moderates, conservatives and liberals are people who happen to own guns and happen to own weapons and this is a conversation they would be delighted to have. obviously everybody care about the safety of our country going forward, the safety of our young people especially in schools going forward, but i would say again, president obama made a great point after the tragedy in newtown, connecticut, and he said we have to make sure it doesn't happen again and it's bigger than nra-pro or antistance. it's how do we stop this from happening and how do we stop people who may be imbalanced from getting into a school and hurting kids?

>> chris, does the republican-controlled house have the juice to block anything from the white house politically speaking? >> i mean, to be honest, yeah. they do. i think it's going to be very difficult to get what a lot of people want and what people are open to which is basically reinstating the assault weapons ban and other kinds of common sense reform. we'll see what the vice president's working group has come up with in terms of recommendation, but the politics of this is they've always been difficult and communicating and raising the issue is very critical and the last one is the victims' groups. these families that have been devastated by these crimes whether it's newtown or in other places across this country and them speaking out and putting the political pressure on these members of congress will be critical. i hate to put that burden on them because they're dealing with enough. they deserve to be heard and not all of them will be saying the

same thing and not all will be saying we're against the nra and we're against the americans right to bear arms and ooh an intelligent discussion about exactly what's needed and where the line should be drawn. >> the key thing there is the republicans and particular groups like the nras and others are drawing lines in the sand that say no, i can't do this. we can't discuss it and that's where this debate becomes toxic. >> democratic strategist, thank you. real fast, though, chris. your daughter alexandra is her sixth birthday and she has a super pac lined up for her presidential run. a lot of checks coming in the mail today for turning six? >> i hope so. we started her pac. alexandra 2093, maybe. >> i like that. >> if this super pac can do it, i have all of the belief in the world. happy birthday to your 6-year-old. >> happy birthday. coming up, all of the president's men and what the political impact and the lack of

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all right. another high-ranking woman in the obama white house is bowing out. white house deputy chief of staff is reportedly leaving the white house at the end of this month adding to the number of senior-level openings that president obama must now fill, but with the first four major appointments all were complete and all four going to white men does the president have a diversity problem? certainly want optics don't look good. lynn sweet of the washington bureau chief for "the chicago sun-times." lynn, i'll start with you. is there truly a diversity

problem or is it just the perception of it? >> well, you've got to let him have more appointments. i think there is a potential right now. yeah. and the obama administration should have seen this coming. they could have somehow and still can send out signals of what they intend to do with these higher decisions and the departure of nancy ann diparlo means there have got to be more women in the pipeline that the obama administration will appoint. i don't see how they can't be doing it because women were the backbone of the obama support for reelection. >> if we look at modern times and what past precedences have done, we look at president george w. bush increasing the number of women in his cabinet for 19% of his first term and the 24% in his second. president bill clinton saw the percentage of women rise from 27 to 44%. do you think that this could be the first time that we don't see the needle moving forward for a second term administration if president obama doesn't make some really sharp moves now to

correct the diversity problem? >> think the pressure will be on for him to make sure that we don't see white men across the board the way we've seen in these early appointments. this is the piece of the criticism that the obama white house has had for a long time that it's the boyses' club and the culture of the place is frat housy and as lynn was saying, despite the support that the president has gotten for his elections from women, that's a charge that's often been levied against him. you see the white house, you see a woman in the photo and all you can see is her leg. you can hardly see it, behind the guy next to jay carney is valerie jaret. it's like big foot. >> where's waldo. >> it would be great to see where the president moves forward. lynn and molly, very quickly, with just seconds left, do you think the pressure is on to find the right women that deserve

these roles? >> absolutely. and you know they paid attention because with "the new york times," they put out, valerie jaret is there right in the middle flanked by other women advisers. advisers, by the way, not the same rank as cabinet members. >> molly, your take? >> i agree with lynn. some of the early names we've heard to replace hilda solis have all been women, signifying that the administration knows that's the direction they need to go with women not just in the room, but visible. >> jennifer granholm. >> yeah. who is looking for a job, right? >> available. >> ladies, thanks so much. >> it's hard to believe that america could think any less of the job that congress is doing, but arc pirntly we do. the results of a new survey ahead leave you scratching your head and up next, a major confrontation brewing as new battle lines are being drawn and we're talking about the debt ceiling fight and the potential

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